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Lots of people argue that in the SW galaxy there might be a group of humans that could be roughly be assimilated to Latinx people and I have nothing against this idea nor the idea of space Latinx speaking space Spanish.
But every time I read a fic where Poe Dameron speaks Spanish and say it's Yavinese it just makes me grit my teeth.
- Neither Kes nor Shara have been born on Yavin IV
- Kes and Shara settled there during the last months of the OT war. Their place is described as a "fledging colony", indicating that it has been established recently - after the Rebel Alliance left. Poe is probably part of the first generation of humans to have been born and raised on Yavin IV since the Massassi likely disappeared.
- In canon, thousands of years ago there were people - the Massassi - living on Yavin IV, and they were slaves to a Sith Lord or something. These guys could be speaking Yavinese but 1)we have no idea if they're still alive, and probably aren't 2)why would the Rebel Alliance set up their secret base on a planet full of innocent civilians when there are plenty of empty habitable planets
- Even by accepting that the Massassi are still alive, why would Shara and Kes teach Poe as his maternal language Yavinese, instead of what likely would be their first language (so, space Spanish)
- Assuming that Yavinese is actually the language called in the colony because somehow it's entirely made up of space Latinx speaking space Spanish, it still makes no sense for the language to be called Yavinese. The United States have been a thing for 400 years and people here still call the language English, not "American." Brazilian people don't speak Brazilian, they speak a dialect of Portuguese but it's still Portuguese. The dialect established itself after several generations of people being more and more removed from the language's country of origin. So for a young colony like Yavin IV it still makes even less sense to say "oh yeah we're all speaking space Spanish and live on Yavin IV, therefore now we shall say we speak Yavinese."
But every time I read a fic where Poe Dameron speaks Spanish and say it's Yavinese it just makes me grit my teeth.
- Neither Kes nor Shara have been born on Yavin IV
- Kes and Shara settled there during the last months of the OT war. Their place is described as a "fledging colony", indicating that it has been established recently - after the Rebel Alliance left. Poe is probably part of the first generation of humans to have been born and raised on Yavin IV since the Massassi likely disappeared.
- In canon, thousands of years ago there were people - the Massassi - living on Yavin IV, and they were slaves to a Sith Lord or something. These guys could be speaking Yavinese but 1)we have no idea if they're still alive, and probably aren't 2)why would the Rebel Alliance set up their secret base on a planet full of innocent civilians when there are plenty of empty habitable planets
- Even by accepting that the Massassi are still alive, why would Shara and Kes teach Poe as his maternal language Yavinese, instead of what likely would be their first language (so, space Spanish)
- Assuming that Yavinese is actually the language called in the colony because somehow it's entirely made up of space Latinx speaking space Spanish, it still makes no sense for the language to be called Yavinese. The United States have been a thing for 400 years and people here still call the language English, not "American." Brazilian people don't speak Brazilian, they speak a dialect of Portuguese but it's still Portuguese. The dialect established itself after several generations of people being more and more removed from the language's country of origin. So for a young colony like Yavin IV it still makes even less sense to say "oh yeah we're all speaking space Spanish and live on Yavin IV, therefore now we shall say we speak Yavinese."
You make a lot of good points here. I haven't read much of Spanish-speaking Poe (partly b/c what little I have read had no translations and I only know like 5 Spanish words >:P), but I agree with the development of language part. I didn't know that it's being called Yavinese, either. I always assumed the planet was uninhabited until the rebels came.
Spanish itself has so many regional variations that I wouldn't be surprised that, even among the fans who feature Spanish-speaking Poe in their works, there's a lot of variety. My guess is that they would generally try to match the Spanish to what Oscar Isaac's family speaks, but the number of fans who can "authentically" write that must be very few. Central and Latin American Spanish is especially complicated b/c words from indigenous languages are also mixed in (and how the words are mixed in depends on the region). It'd be kinda cool to make space Spanish different from Earth Spanish, haha, but it'd take a lot of work.
Anyway, for fandom purposes, I think that noting when a character is speaking another language but still including that dialogue in English is the best way. Besides Poe's possible native language, there are hundreds of others in the SW universe, and they should all be treated the same. Unless you want to highlight a word or phrase (its meaning being difficult to translate to another character, an unfortunate mistake in a language has bad or goofy consequences, etc), then you really don't need to directly include another language at all. Real languages are hard enough w/o worrying about fictional ones, too.
Spanish itself has so many regional variations that I wouldn't be surprised that, even among the fans who feature Spanish-speaking Poe in their works, there's a lot of variety. My guess is that they would generally try to match the Spanish to what Oscar Isaac's family speaks, but the number of fans who can "authentically" write that must be very few. Central and Latin American Spanish is especially complicated b/c words from indigenous languages are also mixed in (and how the words are mixed in depends on the region). It'd be kinda cool to make space Spanish different from Earth Spanish, haha, but it'd take a lot of work.
Anyway, for fandom purposes, I think that noting when a character is speaking another language but still including that dialogue in English is the best way. Besides Poe's possible native language, there are hundreds of others in the SW universe, and they should all be treated the same. Unless you want to highlight a word or phrase (its meaning being difficult to translate to another character, an unfortunate mistake in a language has bad or goofy consequences, etc), then you really don't need to directly include another language at all. Real languages are hard enough w/o worrying about fictional ones, too.
The reason they have him speaking Spanish is that of the fact that Oscar Isaac is from Cuba or thereabouts and the native language there is Spanish, so it would make sense for people to use the native language of the actor and call it Yavinese for all we know Yavinese could be the language of the Pacific Islands I like mixing it up.
Radically different AUs - fandoms you can and can't venture that far from canon
(Anonymous) 2016-12-06 05:04 am (UTC)(link)Hi, I've never posted in the discussion here before, but this topic came up with a friend, and I'm curious about other opinions/experiences.
I've played around in a lot of fandoms over the years, but I was never a fan of AUs centered around radically different worlds (and I'm no good at thinking of short and sweet words for things XD).
Examples:
- school AU - teens, early twenties, teachers, etc
- vampire/werewolf/etc supernatural AU
- magic/fantasy AU
- daemon AU - maybe familiars or something to do with souls or spirits, too?
- assassin/serial killer AU
- organized crime AU
- stripper/prostitute AU
- A/B/O AU
D/s or BDSM AU
- soulmate/soulbond AU
- animal/shapeshifter/pet AU
- gender/sex change AU
- trope blends and fandom-specific AUs like Hogwarts/HP
- historical setting AU
- working in the modern world AU (they've graduated school! probably!) - throw all your athlete, dancer, musician, writer, artist, professional children's card game player AUs here
............you get the idea.
I've read a little of the more light-hearted AUs (like coffee shop and buddy cop, both of which I read here! XD), because sometimes you just need something easy to read that might make you laugh. I can't do fluffy (moments of sweet are all I want), and some AUs tend to go in that direction, but that may be more of a fandom tendency thing depending on the fandom.
I usually lean toward dark and angsty, and so many of these AUs can go that way, but I've never really enjoyed them. Granted, some squick me out or blend together things I hate and love (I avoid A/B/O like the plague, but gimme all the elements of D/s you got dude)... but they don't really click with me. I've never had the urge to read or write or draw any of it.
That is, until TFA screwed everything up for me. XD
I don't know why, but Kylo Ren works really freakin well in modern Earth AU settings to me. It's a good way to explore his character and think about how he would act if the stakes were lower. (Like dealing with one world instead of a galaxy, having no Force just good ole gravity, still using sharp pointy objects to threaten people, having all the black clothing and ways to avoid sunlight that he could ever want, etc -- in all seriousness, though, I don't like when he's exaggerated into an obnoxious caricature who never changes. It got boring very fast.) Of course, it can still end up hurting my heart and breaking my brain, but fandom does that to me all the time anyway. Kylo Ren will do that to me anyway, with or without jeans and a T-shirt (and boots -- I tried the sneakers look on him, but he only kept one beat-up pair in the back of his closet).
So! Finally, here are my two questions for anyone reading this:
(1) Do you read/write/draw radically different AUs for Star Wars?
(2) Are you generally a fan of those kinds of AUs, stick with canon-related AUs (like "what if" or change one thing), or don't like to play around in AUs at all?
I'm not counting relationships in AUs for this, so you can skip any het/slash/gen/other parts if you want. I think aging characters up or down can be included, though.
I've played around in a lot of fandoms over the years, but I was never a fan of AUs centered around radically different worlds (and I'm no good at thinking of short and sweet words for things XD).
Examples:
- school AU - teens, early twenties, teachers, etc
- vampire/werewolf/etc supernatural AU
- magic/fantasy AU
- daemon AU - maybe familiars or something to do with souls or spirits, too?
- assassin/serial killer AU
- organized crime AU
- stripper/prostitute AU
- A/B/O AU
D/s or BDSM AU
- soulmate/soulbond AU
- animal/shapeshifter/pet AU
- gender/sex change AU
- trope blends and fandom-specific AUs like Hogwarts/HP
- historical setting AU
- working in the modern world AU (they've graduated school! probably!) - throw all your athlete, dancer, musician, writer, artist, professional children's card game player AUs here
............you get the idea.
I've read a little of the more light-hearted AUs (like coffee shop and buddy cop, both of which I read here! XD), because sometimes you just need something easy to read that might make you laugh. I can't do fluffy (moments of sweet are all I want), and some AUs tend to go in that direction, but that may be more of a fandom tendency thing depending on the fandom.
I usually lean toward dark and angsty, and so many of these AUs can go that way, but I've never really enjoyed them. Granted, some squick me out or blend together things I hate and love (I avoid A/B/O like the plague, but gimme all the elements of D/s you got dude)... but they don't really click with me. I've never had the urge to read or write or draw any of it.
That is, until TFA screwed everything up for me. XD
I don't know why, but Kylo Ren works really freakin well in modern Earth AU settings to me. It's a good way to explore his character and think about how he would act if the stakes were lower. (Like dealing with one world instead of a galaxy, having no Force just good ole gravity, still using sharp pointy objects to threaten people, having all the black clothing and ways to avoid sunlight that he could ever want, etc -- in all seriousness, though, I don't like when he's exaggerated into an obnoxious caricature who never changes. It got boring very fast.) Of course, it can still end up hurting my heart and breaking my brain, but fandom does that to me all the time anyway. Kylo Ren will do that to me anyway, with or without jeans and a T-shirt (and boots -- I tried the sneakers look on him, but he only kept one beat-up pair in the back of his closet).
So! Finally, here are my two questions for anyone reading this:
(1) Do you read/write/draw radically different AUs for Star Wars?
(2) Are you generally a fan of those kinds of AUs, stick with canon-related AUs (like "what if" or change one thing), or don't like to play around in AUs at all?
I'm not counting relationships in AUs for this, so you can skip any het/slash/gen/other parts if you want. I think aging characters up or down can be included, though.
Re: Radically different AUs - fandoms you can and can't venture that far from canon
(Anonymous) 2016-12-07 12:03 pm (UTC)(link)Interesting questions. So, I generally stay away from radically different settings, both in my writing and reading preferences. That said, point-of-difference AUs, where the butterfly effects are fully realised can be amazing to read, and I've even tried my hand at writing such things.
There are also some impressive different-setting AUs out there, but I tend to prefer them outside of the Star Wars fandom. One of the issues I have with modern AUs in Star Wars is that I would prefer the same stakes as the Star Wars 'verse. I feel like it detracts from Kylo's characterisation if he doesn't have the capacity to kill. Without that element of genuine threat, his actions just don't matter as much and that's something I personally find less narratively satisfying.
Funnily enough, Rey's situation can be translated into a modern AU with a bit of twisting. Her situation can be just as life-and-death if the author's deft enough at looking at say, youth homelessness (I am definitely not such an author and would baulk at attempting something like that).
On a side note, I agree one-gagillion percent about D/s AUs over A/B/O. Why make it physiological when it can be an interesting blend of psychological and societal pressures and maybe a thinly veiled metaphor for gender that doesn't map quite perfectly. D/s-verses 5eva.
There are also some impressive different-setting AUs out there, but I tend to prefer them outside of the Star Wars fandom. One of the issues I have with modern AUs in Star Wars is that I would prefer the same stakes as the Star Wars 'verse. I feel like it detracts from Kylo's characterisation if he doesn't have the capacity to kill. Without that element of genuine threat, his actions just don't matter as much and that's something I personally find less narratively satisfying.
Funnily enough, Rey's situation can be translated into a modern AU with a bit of twisting. Her situation can be just as life-and-death if the author's deft enough at looking at say, youth homelessness (I am definitely not such an author and would baulk at attempting something like that).
On a side note, I agree one-gagillion percent about D/s AUs over A/B/O. Why make it physiological when it can be an interesting blend of psychological and societal pressures and maybe a thinly veiled metaphor for gender that doesn't map quite perfectly. D/s-verses 5eva.
Whoo, someone replied already! I was prepared to wait a while, lol.
Oh, butterfly effect AUs can be fun to read, but they seem difficult to write. I haven't tried, since my stories are usually short and something like that could be novel-length.
Interesting. What kinds of fandoms do you like the very different AUs? (Novels, comic books, TV, anime, video games, etc.) Or does it simply depend on the fandom/the characters?
Kylo can still have blood on his hands in a modern AU. I'm not sure how many people write him that way, however. I haven't been reading many fics in this genre, especially lately, but from what I've seen... Yeah, people tend to keep the personal and familial issues but not the darkness. I ran across a bunch of modern AU stories that de-aged everyone, too. Like 20- and 30-somethings aren't as fun to write or something. >:P Unless they just wanted kid Rey, lol... I agree both with your idea (and personally not being able to write it) concerning Rey, btw. She's a resourceful one, though, so I don't think it'd be all doom and gloom, even before BB-8 and Finn enter the picture.
YES D/s FOREVER. I don't have a favorite kink, but it's in my top five. XD I love psychological relationships. They don't have to be twisted in a scary or grotesque way or anything, but one or both characters hating it and hating that they love it is just A+. That, or the whole trust angle with "I can only be this way with you" feelings. I'm also a sucker for aftercare, I found out, thanks to D/s. XD The characters are what make it interesting, and each pairing can have a different dynamic. I think that oftentimes A/B/O relies too much on the uncontrollable, and as a result the characters fill the AU's roles instead of the roles suiting the characters.
Errrr I'll stop. I'm getting off-topic in my own thread.
Oh, butterfly effect AUs can be fun to read, but they seem difficult to write. I haven't tried, since my stories are usually short and something like that could be novel-length.
Interesting. What kinds of fandoms do you like the very different AUs? (Novels, comic books, TV, anime, video games, etc.) Or does it simply depend on the fandom/the characters?
Kylo can still have blood on his hands in a modern AU. I'm not sure how many people write him that way, however. I haven't been reading many fics in this genre, especially lately, but from what I've seen... Yeah, people tend to keep the personal and familial issues but not the darkness. I ran across a bunch of modern AU stories that de-aged everyone, too. Like 20- and 30-somethings aren't as fun to write or something. >:P Unless they just wanted kid Rey, lol... I agree both with your idea (and personally not being able to write it) concerning Rey, btw. She's a resourceful one, though, so I don't think it'd be all doom and gloom, even before BB-8 and Finn enter the picture.
YES D/s FOREVER. I don't have a favorite kink, but it's in my top five. XD I love psychological relationships. They don't have to be twisted in a scary or grotesque way or anything, but one or both characters hating it and hating that they love it is just A+. That, or the whole trust angle with "I can only be this way with you" feelings. I'm also a sucker for aftercare, I found out, thanks to D/s. XD The characters are what make it interesting, and each pairing can have a different dynamic. I think that oftentimes A/B/O relies too much on the uncontrollable, and as a result the characters fill the AU's roles instead of the roles suiting the characters.
Errrr I'll stop. I'm getting off-topic in my own thread.
how do you post a link to an image on dreamwidth so it shows up as that little notebook picture
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Star_Wars_Logo.svg/1280px-Star_Wars_Logo.svg.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Star_Wars_Logo.svg/1280px-Star_Wars_Logo.svg.png
Did anyone see it? I just came back and went kinda meh with it, however I don't think I was all that much of a SW fan even though I've seen all the movies (my grandma made sure I grew up with them).
With that said, it did spark ideas for long dead fics that I just returned to. I also REALLY want to read/write something that has Hux in that fabulous white uniform the Director was wearing. (Even though I know it wouldn't make any sense because Hux is a General but...white cape...)
With that said, it did spark ideas for long dead fics that I just returned to. I also REALLY want to read/write something that has Hux in that fabulous white uniform the Director was wearing. (Even though I know it wouldn't make any sense because Hux is a General but...white cape...)
I also didn't dig Rogue One all that much, but the cape, THE CAPE. I'm kinda sad the "Krennic walking in the water with that gorgeous stupid useless beautiful white cape trailing behind him" scene from the early trailers didn't make it into the final movie. His outfit was the best thing about the character, really.
Unpopular opinion apparently, but I actually loved Rogue One a lot more than TFA. Rogue One is more my style of movie and I liked that it had higher, grittier, more realistic stakes than anything from the OT or TFA.
But I tend to prefer stories about the normal people fighting the war over stories about the larger than life heroes who win the final battle (and I say this as someone who adores the OT and TFA and all the characters).
But I tend to prefer stories about the normal people fighting the war over stories about the larger than life heroes who win the final battle (and I say this as someone who adores the OT and TFA and all the characters).
I was surprised at how dark it was. But at the same time, there were so many characters, I didn't feel very sad about any of it. Or maybe I'm just dead inside.
Eh, I feel like there's different ways to get emotionally effected by stuff. I rarely glom onto specific characters for big emotional effects, but give me sad contexts for *concepts* like "the passage of time", "doing the right thing at great personal cost" and even ~the human spirit~ and whoa, suddenly affected.
It means I can look dead inside when something very sad/bad happens to some poor bastard, but it's just the way I interact with media.
Long story short, Rogue One was the right kind of conceptual narrative to hit my emotions, not for the characters that died, per se, but for the idea of the relay of revolution. Where cooperation and a thousand small instances of doing the right thing (that don't even look important to the people doing it necessarily), leading to big changes. Just. Yeah, my thing.
It means I can look dead inside when something very sad/bad happens to some poor bastard, but it's just the way I interact with media.
Long story short, Rogue One was the right kind of conceptual narrative to hit my emotions, not for the characters that died, per se, but for the idea of the relay of revolution. Where cooperation and a thousand small instances of doing the right thing (that don't even look important to the people doing it necessarily), leading to big changes. Just. Yeah, my thing.
THERE IS NO JESUS CHRIST IN STAR WARS
IT ALL HAPPENED A LONG TIME AGO, IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY
STAR WARS WIKI MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU USE IT????
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_phrases_and_slang
LOOK I EVEN DID THE BLOODY 5 SECOND GOOGLE SEARCH FOR YOU
IT ALL HAPPENED A LONG TIME AGO, IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY
STAR WARS WIKI MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU USE IT????
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_phrases_and_slang
LOOK I EVEN DID THE BLOODY 5 SECOND GOOGLE SEARCH FOR YOU
Invoking JC in any sci-fi/fantasy setting that doesn't involve Earth is pretty damned stupid, isn't it?
Agreed. It is damn hard avoiding "damn" and "hell" in my SW writing. Especially the latter. I spent an hour trying to work out how to refer to Mustfar other than as a hellscape (nightmarish, in case you were wondering). Everyone needs to suffer along with me trying to avoid these ubiquitous linguistic hell-traps.
I am pretty sure, we must have that somewhere along those 10K+ fics on AO3 for TFA, but for hells sake, i cant remember them, so could anyone have a flash of recognition, could they point me out to those fics?
Thank you!
https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/5tar54/star_wars_general_hux_is_way_more_important_to/
(I hope, linking is ok, and I didnt put the theorys here inside because maybe that if they turn out true, this might be spoiler for someone here, and make it triggerish?
)
Thank you!
https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/5tar54/star_wars_general_hux_is_way_more_important_to/
(I hope, linking is ok, and I didnt put the theorys here inside because maybe that if they turn out true, this might be spoiler for someone here, and make it triggerish?
)
Does anyone remember a Kylo/Hux fic that's a long epic? The only part I remember is that there's Force Ghosts and Ren takes Hux to a remote planet and won't let Hux leave. Hux tries to fix a ship or...something...and Ren gets really mad and used his power to throw the ship into a body of water to let it sink.
I...think they're plotting to kill Snoke?
Ren is really attached to Hux even though they fight all the time.
Possible Hux is Force-sensitive but I honestly cannot remember. I wanted to read it again because I wanted to re-read some plotty fics on Ao3 but but didn't save it.
I...think they're plotting to kill Snoke?
Ren is really attached to Hux even though they fight all the time.
Possible Hux is Force-sensitive but I honestly cannot remember. I wanted to read it again because I wanted to re-read some plotty fics on Ao3 but but didn't save it.
Is there a Last Jedi kinkmeme, or are we all basically staying here?
Please someone tell me where this is. I've looked on Google and I need me some kink meme for the new year.
this is a very long shot but does anyone recall a short(ish) kylo/phasma fill for the tfa_kink (or starwarskinkmeme)? it was kind of tragic and angsty, and appears to have been deleted.
(x-posted to rogueonekink)
(x-posted to rogueonekink)
SA
From what I can remember, he catches her with her helmet off and he touches her cheek/face and she rejects him.
From what I can remember, he catches her with her helmet off and he touches her cheek/face and she rejects him.
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