Who cares? Until canon tells us otherwise, people can headcanon what they like to fill in the gaps of Ren's backstory. Considering how little we know about him, there's a lot of room for interpretation.
Because it drains the story of all conflict? I mean, you could have a brainwashed ally the good guys want to rescue. But that story has been done twice by Marvel in the past few years and done *well* in the Winter Soldier. And Star Wars has predictable dark/light conflicts. His backstory and motivation may be completely lacking, but he's a "dark", read bad, side dude.
NAYRT, but I really don't understand your argument. This story has to be the same as all other Star Wars stories, just because? And drained of all conflict? What about the entire rest of the First Order? What about Leia potentially struggling with fighting the FO when it could mean the death of her son? What if it's made horribly, painfully clear that none of this was ultimately his fault, but he never snaps out of it?
And I don't even know what Marvel has to do with anything. So they did the basic trope? There's more than one way to go with it, and the audiences aren't identical.
I think it's going to be not that he was brainwashed, but that he let the Knights of Ren into the Jedi school, knowing what they were going to do, as a final initiation to the group. He's still culpable for the deaths either way.
I think he will be getting a redemption arc, and one that's going to be fairly central in the final movie, if not the middle one, Because this is Disney though, I think they are going to try to soft-pedal Kylo's past wrongs. Even though they flat out had him murder his dad onscreen, and he's killed countless other people and is generally a rage-filled dick, they might back away from confirming outright he murdered a bunch of children because 'toy marketing'.
The Snoke in his head thing isn't brainwashing, really. It's straight up influence. Take a lonely kid, tell him he's right when he thinks people hate him and it's because they don't understand his potential power, and coax him around to joining the dark side. Kylo/Ben's still making the choice, he's just listening to bad influences in making it.
In short, I don't think it's as black and white as you're seeing it, and it's definitely not a Winter Soldier scenario.
I don't defend the simplistic story choices. I'm just rather cynical about it. I'd like to be surprised. Hell, I was rooting for a Magnificent Bastard Admiral Thrawn type of villain, and a New Republic that was corrupt and a mess but preferable to a dictator. But no, JJ Abrams/ Disney wiped out any and all political and cultural progress since the Battle of Endor, all the original heroes' victories and growth to release slicker better acted bad fanfiction.
And I still like the fucking movie. I *am* old and bitter.
See, I never read the books, so there's nothing to be torn down. It's like MCU. MCU doesn't follow comic canon, so the comics don't matter. It's a seperate thing. Same with the Star Wars movies. The tie in novels and comics etc don't matter, the movies are their own continuity, and the novels are the theories of ways things might go that held people over until canon came back. Really, the novels are the fanfiction. Not part of continuity unless acknowledged by the films.
Because this is Disney though, I think they are going to try to soft-pedal Kylo's past wrongs. Even though they flat out had him murder his dad onscreen, and he's killed countless other people and is generally a rage-filled dick, they might back away from confirming outright he murdered a bunch of children because 'toy marketing'.
DA
I don't really get this mentality. I mean, people were saying exactly the same thing when Disney bought Marvel - that the movies would get watered down, that they'd be too kid-friendly, that they'd be too boring and safe. But the arguably most successful MCU movies, both critically and commercially, happened under Disney. Winter Soldier wasn't boring, and taking a chance on Guardians Of The Galaxy wasn't safe. A lot of the problems the MCU has stem from their story group, headed by Feige, and that was in place before Disney came along.
I don't think Disney are trying to dilute Star Wars, just because they're Disney. They literally allowed one of the most popular Star Wars characters ever to be killed onscreen. And Star Wars already has a child-killer villain in Anakin/Vader - I don't think Disney would have got involved in the franchise if they couldn't stomach the content that already existed. Before TFA, Vader dominated toy aisles. Hell, even if the new TFA characters, Vader still dominates toy aisles. They're already selling toys of a child-killer to children, why would that plotline suddenly bother them for Kylo Ren?
The MCU movies are watered down and kid-friendly, though. They are safe. Boring is subjective, but I suppose someone could make an argument for that as well. The heroes don't die and the villains always meet their doom. They soft-pedal past characters doing bad things so you can have a big superhero montage of group shots or action scenes. As long as they save the day in the end, anything bad someone does is hand-waved away. It's all nicely PG-13 and only one or two movies toe those limits.
It's not so much that TWS was boring or that GoTG was a risk. GoTG is a fun movie, but it is "safe". TWS is probably the least watered-down or kid-friendly, but that's more because I think the political aspects as too intricate for a 10 year old who just wants to see Cap do some parkour. The MCU movies are successful because they're fun movies to watch and they're set for the lowest and highest ranges of the audience. Someone who is 6 can watch it the same as someone who is 80.
I mean, compare them to Daredevil and Jessica Jones and it's like you're in two completely different worlds. There's an article somewhere on the internet that I can't seem to find the link to saying that Marvel made the Netflix shows so intense, dark, and hardcore because they knew kids wouldn't be watching them and they could do in the shows what they couldn't do in the movies. The way mind control is portrayed in Jessica Jones is so much grittier and has way more consequences than the way it's portrayed in the Avengers. The shows are meant for adults. The movies are meant for everyone, but are specifically made with the focus on kids because that's who's buying the majority of the merchandise.
And the thing about Han's death is that it had more of an emotional impact on older viewers than younger viewers. Sure, a lot of kids probably had watched the OT, but I think a lot went into TFA without having years and years of love for the OT characters. Han's death in TFA was to some people what Obi Wan's death was in ANH - sad, but necessary to move the plot along. I think a lot of hardcore fans forget that a big, big majority of the viewing public isn't a super fan and is pretty okay with characters dying. It's become par for the course in most television and movies over the last decade.
But Kylo being a child-killer or Vader being a mass murderer isn't focused on in the movies. It's neatly glossed over because Vader redeems himself out of familial love in the end and becomes "good" again. It's what Marvel did with Loki.
Sorry, I should have specified - I meant that Disney taking the reins hasn't suddenly made the Marvel movies more watered down. The bad guys still got defeated and the good guys still saved the day before Disney got involved. They're superhero films and, unlike several other superhero franchises, they're not grim and gritty. That tone hasn't changed since Disney bought Marvel, and my point (that I didn't articulate well, sorry about that) is that the Star Wars tone hasn't suddenly been completely overhauled since Disney bought it.
The SW films have always been enjoyable as family films. Sure, they're skewed much older than an animated Disney film, but kids do love them. And I think TFA fit into that mold nicely. Like you say, Han's death would likely hit older audiences more strongly than younger audiences - the movies aren't suddenly only about children and their enjoyment, they're still primarily focused on telling a story everyone can appreciate. One of the bigger complaints about The Phantom Menace (amongst many, many complaints) was that between introducing Anakin at such a young age and Jar Jar's childlike personality, it seemed obvious that Lucas was trying to aim for a younger audience. I didn't get that sense at all from TFA. The closest thing to a merchandise-friendly character that children would automatically adore is BB-8, but the same could be said about R2-D2 in the original trilogy.
I do think they'll look into Kylo Ren's motivations and that could possibly involve some sort of redemption arc for him. But that's mainly because that's an established SW pattern, not because Disney have to make him a good guy because of toy sales. The PT was about Anakin's fall to the Dark Side, the OT has Palpatine and Vader trying to pull Luke to the Dark Side too, and ultimately failing, thus leading to Vader's sacrifice to save Luke. I think we'll see something similar, with a juxtaposition between Rey having to fight the temptation of the Dark Side and Kylo having to fight the temptation of the Light. They've already humanised Kylo in TFA more than Vader was for most of the OT, so it'd be a wasted opportunity not to explore his inner conflict. I think it's more likely any act Kylo takes against Snoke and the Dark Side will be fuelled more by personal revenge than wanting to help the Resistance. Whether he actually will end up being fully 'redeemed' is a mystery, obviously, but I don't see him getting a happy ending either way.
I don't think including the Netflix shows make sense with the comparison I was trying to make, but again that's my fault for not being clear. The MCU movies remained the same in tone when Disney took over, the SW movies remained the same in tone when Disney took over. Now, the spin-offs from the movie will be where it gets interesting. The Clone Wars cartoon may have started out cheery and kid-friendly, but it got deeply dark and complicated by the end. Disney cancelled the show, but they've been quite clear that it wasn't the tone that was the problem, it's that they're trying to move away from the PT era and focus more on OT era and beyond. Rebels is on Disney XD, so that has to remain a certain level of family-friendly, but already the second season is considerably darker than the first. I think the most comparable thing to the Marvel Netflix shows will be the SW Anthology movies, since they can create their own tone and style without having to fit with the rest of the SW films. That doesn't necessarily mean grim and gritty, but it does mean a stylistic change, and that's where a potential comparison could lie.
To be fair, I don't think you can say Vader being a mass murderer and child-killer is "glossed over". Yes, he dies doing a noble thing, but the last five minutes of ROTJ don't suddenly invalidate the rest of the OT, or his fall in ROTS. Vader as a mass-murderer very much is focused on in the movies, it's literally his entire role for most of the OT. He's the villain, he murders and kidnaps and tortures main characters. And when we find out he's related to Luke, it's because he's trying to use that fact to turn Luke to the Dark Side. When people think of Vader, whether they're casual or diehard fans, their first thought is going to be him as the villain of the saga, not "oh, he did a good thing at the end, so none of the rest of his evil shit matters".
Nobody stays dead in the comics, there's always another fucking reboot or Event series. Wring more money out of fans by reaming continuity out the ass again.
Do you not understand how a multiverse works? It's the same as the old heroes of folk oral tradition--we take the same characters, we make different stories, we have free rein to beat them up as much as we want, but when we return them to the shelf (sometimes dead, sometimes exiled, sometimes turned into gods or trapped in hell for eternity, whatever) it's with the understanding that the next authors can take them back off and do whatever new thing they want with it.
I understand that half the time the reboots are shit, and the most interest Marvel or DC has in the concept of a multiverse is it's capacity to suck more cash out of fans. I love multiverses, I don't like the concept being used primarily to empty my wallet, and secondarily to fuck with characters that are awesome and make them crap.
I think they'll kill him off at the end of Civil War and then revive him at the end of Infinity War, Part 1. Knowing Evans is filming Infinity War pretty much ended any speculation about Steve dying permanently in Infinity War.
I'm thinking they're going to go for the standard killing off a black character and it's going to be Rhodey or Sam. They'll probably kill Rhodey so we can have another movie featuring Tony's manpain.
Well, it has been leaked that three secondary character death scenes were filmed. Only one is going to be used. I don't want to potentially spoil anyone, so google it if you're interested.
They filmed two character death scenes for AoU and only used one. One was for the final film, the other was for misdirection and fan speculation.
Also, it's been pointed out that in the trailer that Bucky mouths "Steve's dead" in the trailer, so I'm pretty sure they are going to kill Steve, but I don't really think anyone should be surprised by that if they know anything about the comics. Doing the Civil War storyline without killing Steve would be pointless.
It better not be Sam, considering how he's the best Captain America the comics line has produced in a long ass time. He needs to survive past Bucky's reign so he can take up the shield himself.
Rumor has it Marvel is considering letting Sharon take the shield if Steve dies in the movie. But that could just be a red herring to throw fans off the trail of Bucky or Sam becoming the new Cap.
A part of me thinks they won't kill Rhodey, because they showed him obviously hurt and unconscious in the trailer, so it wouldn't be much of a surprise. The other part of me remembers that shot of Wanda screaming in the AOU trailer and how obvious it made it that Pietro was going to die. There's also the fact that RDJ was told he could have either Pepper or Rhodey in AOU and he chose Rhodey, and the MCU has a history of allowing characters to have small parts in multiple films so their eventual death can be more of a manpain motivator.
Having Steve die and come back would seem cheap in the movies. I mean, I know shit like that happens all the time in comics, but the movies are different and audiences would probably be more resistant to the idea. Having Steve be so badly injured that he's in a coma and not waking up anytime soon would probably work better. Or having the other characters think he's dead, only to show Hydra or Ross or whoever has his body and is experimenting might work. I don't know, I just don't want straight 'he's totally dead ... until it's convenient for the plot of the next movie' to happen. It was crappy with Coulson on Agents Of SHIELD, it'd be crappy in the movies.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-15 09:09 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-17 06:42 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-17 07:02 am (UTC)(link)And I don't even know what Marvel has to do with anything. So they did the basic trope? There's more than one way to go with it, and the audiences aren't identical.
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-17 07:11 am (UTC)(link)I think he will be getting a redemption arc, and one that's going to be fairly central in the final movie, if not the middle one, Because this is Disney though, I think they are going to try to soft-pedal Kylo's past wrongs. Even though they flat out had him murder his dad onscreen, and he's killed countless other people and is generally a rage-filled dick, they might back away from confirming outright he murdered a bunch of children because 'toy marketing'.
The Snoke in his head thing isn't brainwashing, really. It's straight up influence. Take a lonely kid, tell him he's right when he thinks people hate him and it's because they don't understand his potential power, and coax him around to joining the dark side. Kylo/Ben's still making the choice, he's just listening to bad influences in making it.
In short, I don't think it's as black and white as you're seeing it, and it's definitely not a Winter Soldier scenario.
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-17 07:59 am (UTC)(link)And I still like the fucking movie. I *am* old and bitter.
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-17 08:51 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 12:14 am (UTC)(link)DA
I don't really get this mentality. I mean, people were saying exactly the same thing when Disney bought Marvel - that the movies would get watered down, that they'd be too kid-friendly, that they'd be too boring and safe. But the arguably most successful MCU movies, both critically and commercially, happened under Disney. Winter Soldier wasn't boring, and taking a chance on Guardians Of The Galaxy wasn't safe. A lot of the problems the MCU has stem from their story group, headed by Feige, and that was in place before Disney came along.
I don't think Disney are trying to dilute Star Wars, just because they're Disney. They literally allowed one of the most popular Star Wars characters ever to be killed onscreen. And Star Wars already has a child-killer villain in Anakin/Vader - I don't think Disney would have got involved in the franchise if they couldn't stomach the content that already existed. Before TFA, Vader dominated toy aisles. Hell, even if the new TFA characters, Vader still dominates toy aisles. They're already selling toys of a child-killer to children, why would that plotline suddenly bother them for Kylo Ren?
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 01:38 am (UTC)(link)The MCU movies are watered down and kid-friendly, though. They are safe. Boring is subjective, but I suppose someone could make an argument for that as well. The heroes don't die and the villains always meet their doom. They soft-pedal past characters doing bad things so you can have a big superhero montage of group shots or action scenes. As long as they save the day in the end, anything bad someone does is hand-waved away. It's all nicely PG-13 and only one or two movies toe those limits.
It's not so much that TWS was boring or that GoTG was a risk. GoTG is a fun movie, but it is "safe". TWS is probably the least watered-down or kid-friendly, but that's more because I think the political aspects as too intricate for a 10 year old who just wants to see Cap do some parkour. The MCU movies are successful because they're fun movies to watch and they're set for the lowest and highest ranges of the audience. Someone who is 6 can watch it the same as someone who is 80.
I mean, compare them to Daredevil and Jessica Jones and it's like you're in two completely different worlds. There's an article somewhere on the internet that I can't seem to find the link to saying that Marvel made the Netflix shows so intense, dark, and hardcore because they knew kids wouldn't be watching them and they could do in the shows what they couldn't do in the movies. The way mind control is portrayed in Jessica Jones is so much grittier and has way more consequences than the way it's portrayed in the Avengers. The shows are meant for adults. The movies are meant for everyone, but are specifically made with the focus on kids because that's who's buying the majority of the merchandise.
And the thing about Han's death is that it had more of an emotional impact on older viewers than younger viewers. Sure, a lot of kids probably had watched the OT, but I think a lot went into TFA without having years and years of love for the OT characters. Han's death in TFA was to some people what Obi Wan's death was in ANH - sad, but necessary to move the plot along. I think a lot of hardcore fans forget that a big, big majority of the viewing public isn't a super fan and is pretty okay with characters dying. It's become par for the course in most television and movies over the last decade.
But Kylo being a child-killer or Vader being a mass murderer isn't focused on in the movies. It's neatly glossed over because Vader redeems himself out of familial love in the end and becomes "good" again. It's what Marvel did with Loki.
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 03:27 pm (UTC)(link)Sorry, I should have specified - I meant that Disney taking the reins hasn't suddenly made the Marvel movies more watered down. The bad guys still got defeated and the good guys still saved the day before Disney got involved. They're superhero films and, unlike several other superhero franchises, they're not grim and gritty. That tone hasn't changed since Disney bought Marvel, and my point (that I didn't articulate well, sorry about that) is that the Star Wars tone hasn't suddenly been completely overhauled since Disney bought it.
The SW films have always been enjoyable as family films. Sure, they're skewed much older than an animated Disney film, but kids do love them. And I think TFA fit into that mold nicely. Like you say, Han's death would likely hit older audiences more strongly than younger audiences - the movies aren't suddenly only about children and their enjoyment, they're still primarily focused on telling a story everyone can appreciate. One of the bigger complaints about The Phantom Menace (amongst many, many complaints) was that between introducing Anakin at such a young age and Jar Jar's childlike personality, it seemed obvious that Lucas was trying to aim for a younger audience. I didn't get that sense at all from TFA. The closest thing to a merchandise-friendly character that children would automatically adore is BB-8, but the same could be said about R2-D2 in the original trilogy.
I do think they'll look into Kylo Ren's motivations and that could possibly involve some sort of redemption arc for him. But that's mainly because that's an established SW pattern, not because Disney have to make him a good guy because of toy sales. The PT was about Anakin's fall to the Dark Side, the OT has Palpatine and Vader trying to pull Luke to the Dark Side too, and ultimately failing, thus leading to Vader's sacrifice to save Luke. I think we'll see something similar, with a juxtaposition between Rey having to fight the temptation of the Dark Side and Kylo having to fight the temptation of the Light. They've already humanised Kylo in TFA more than Vader was for most of the OT, so it'd be a wasted opportunity not to explore his inner conflict. I think it's more likely any act Kylo takes against Snoke and the Dark Side will be fuelled more by personal revenge than wanting to help the Resistance. Whether he actually will end up being fully 'redeemed' is a mystery, obviously, but I don't see him getting a happy ending either way.
I don't think including the Netflix shows make sense with the comparison I was trying to make, but again that's my fault for not being clear. The MCU movies remained the same in tone when Disney took over, the SW movies remained the same in tone when Disney took over. Now, the spin-offs from the movie will be where it gets interesting. The Clone Wars cartoon may have started out cheery and kid-friendly, but it got deeply dark and complicated by the end. Disney cancelled the show, but they've been quite clear that it wasn't the tone that was the problem, it's that they're trying to move away from the PT era and focus more on OT era and beyond. Rebels is on Disney XD, so that has to remain a certain level of family-friendly, but already the second season is considerably darker than the first. I think the most comparable thing to the Marvel Netflix shows will be the SW Anthology movies, since they can create their own tone and style without having to fit with the rest of the SW films. That doesn't necessarily mean grim and gritty, but it does mean a stylistic change, and that's where a potential comparison could lie.
To be fair, I don't think you can say Vader being a mass murderer and child-killer is "glossed over". Yes, he dies doing a noble thing, but the last five minutes of ROTJ don't suddenly invalidate the rest of the OT, or his fall in ROTS. Vader as a mass-murderer very much is focused on in the movies, it's literally his entire role for most of the OT. He's the villain, he murders and kidnaps and tortures main characters. And when we find out he's related to Luke, it's because he's trying to use that fact to turn Luke to the Dark Side. When people think of Vader, whether they're casual or diehard fans, their first thought is going to be him as the villain of the saga, not "oh, he did a good thing at the end, so none of the rest of his evil shit matters".
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 02:17 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 02:32 am (UTC)(link)Considering Chris Evans is contracted for Infinity War, you're probably right. I'm betting they'll kill of a secondary character instead.
Though to be fair, it's not liked he stayed dead in the comics.
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 03:01 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 03:03 am (UTC)(link)nooooo, i'm not bitter at aaaaallll.
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 03:04 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 03:26 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 03:33 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 03:44 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 03:50 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:04 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:08 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:11 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:21 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:11 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 04:09 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 04:21 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:33 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:45 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:49 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:53 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:54 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:55 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:56 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 03:10 am (UTC)(link)I think they'll kill him off at the end of Civil War and then revive him at the end of Infinity War, Part 1. Knowing Evans is filming Infinity War pretty much ended any speculation about Steve dying permanently in Infinity War.
I'm thinking they're going to go for the standard killing off a black character and it's going to be Rhodey or Sam. They'll probably kill Rhodey so we can have another movie featuring Tony's manpain.
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 03:26 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 03:33 am (UTC)(link)Quicksilver is Jewish and Roma, though.
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:06 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:08 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 03:36 am (UTC)(link)They filmed two character death scenes for AoU and only used one. One was for the final film, the other was for misdirection and fan speculation.
Also, it's been pointed out that in the trailer that Bucky mouths "Steve's dead" in the trailer, so I'm pretty sure they are going to kill Steve, but I don't really think anyone should be surprised by that if they know anything about the comics. Doing the Civil War storyline without killing Steve would be pointless.
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 04:07 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 16:42 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-19 00:43 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 04:03 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 04:06 am (UTC)(link)Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:14 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:23 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 04:32 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 17:01 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 23:03 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) 2016-02-18 03:49 pm (UTC)(link)A part of me thinks they won't kill Rhodey, because they showed him obviously hurt and unconscious in the trailer, so it wouldn't be much of a surprise. The other part of me remembers that shot of Wanda screaming in the AOU trailer and how obvious it made it that Pietro was going to die. There's also the fact that RDJ was told he could have either Pepper or Rhodey in AOU and he chose Rhodey, and the MCU has a history of allowing characters to have small parts in multiple films so their eventual death can be more of a manpain motivator.
Having Steve die and come back would seem cheap in the movies. I mean, I know shit like that happens all the time in comics, but the movies are different and audiences would probably be more resistant to the idea. Having Steve be so badly injured that he's in a coma and not waking up anytime soon would probably work better. Or having the other characters think he's dead, only to show Hydra or Ross or whoever has his body and is experimenting might work. I don't know, I just don't want straight 'he's totally dead ... until it's convenient for the plot of the next movie' to happen. It was crappy with Coulson on Agents Of SHIELD, it'd be crappy in the movies.
Re: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 23:05 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-18 23:38 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Interesting patterns you've noticed in fanfic
(Anonymous) - 2016-02-19 00:08 (UTC) - Expand