tfa_kink | DISCUSSION/OFF-TOPIC POST

Subthread OP

This is obviously a personal opinion but I think there is no shame in liking Kylo Ren or other characters. He's very clearly a person who has dealt with a lot of trauma and is in a very unhealthy quasi-father/son relationship with Snoke. It's evidenced from the script and facial expressions by the actor that he's felt guilt and conflict about his actions. Overall, he's a fairly dynamic character and I can admit to liking him in that respect.

I can also definitely see someone who has experienced abuse or trauma in the past relating to him some aspects (because he himself has explicitly been described as having these experiences, unlike the other characters). I think it's important to identify which aspects of him really stick out to you and which aspects of him you would say "no, not me" to. I say this because there are characters I relate to overall but I don't identify with their every actions because their actions are understandable to me by virtue of how I relate to them but not justified.

It's easy to say platitudes but my sincere belief is that every person, outside those who have committed the most horrendous acts (my own opinion again--others, I know, vary), everyone is truly worthy of love and wellness! I wish you well, anon! You are statistically (if you are a numbers person) a good person and I thought I should tell you that.

Thank you. You're being very kind. And yes, I am a numbers person.

I don't identify with every single aspect of Kylo Ren and I think I never have with any fictional character. The mere thought seems strange to me, to be honest. I also don't feel particularly inclined to defend, excuse or justify Kylo or his actions in the movie. The shame is not primarily rooted in the dubious nature of his character and more in the conflicting reactions he seems to elicit. It's nothing that can be rationally explained because it directly ties to one of my many issues. Nevertheless, I can separately recognize him as trash and still (or better: especially) relate to him for being a total and utter fuckwit.

As a survivor of abuse I can't imagine relating to any part of an abuser without feeling horrific guilt. I can't compartmentalize that.

da nearly every villain in Star Wars has been abused too tho, I tend to relate to that part

And you shouldn't have to. But can you understand and respect that other survivors might feel differently?

Eh. When people like nonny in this thread admit it's flawed coping and unhealthy and born from self-hatred I don't know if it should be something encouraged.

Nonny you talk about here. In my case, it has become a flawed coping mechanism, but I already identified with these types of characters way before the problematic aspects became apparent. It should also be noted that my mental illness played a big part in how I learned to relate to these characters and that my disordered behavior is in no way indicative of what might attract other people to them. The way I see it, not the characters per se are unhealthy, but the way or the degree some people choose to interact with them.

I understand why not everyone does identify or wants to identify with someone like Kylo, but just because of bad examples like me it shouldn't be something that's generally discouraged or frowned upon. People can judge me all they want for the things I've said here, but please don't extend that judgement to others.

The flaw is that fans who project onto a character for coping are always going to be the wankers. I get wanting to see a character you relate to get some modicum of sympathy and dignity, and maybe even redemption if they're an antagonist. It just seems so faulty to me.

I admit bias on my own part: I did this when I was a young, dumb teenager. I just don't think that type of interaction is healthy. If you agree Kylo Ren is trash then you're fine. I just think picking those characters as some form of self medicating or coping is always going to end in disaster, and they will be the ones who look wanky.

DA, I think the flaw is in trying to control how others grow and learn. You grew and learned, anon above grew and learned - in your own time. Yelling at people that they're wrong is not going to help them grow and learn because people cope the way they are able to at any given moment in time (it's very different from calling out someone who is racist for example in that it is a need rather than a doctrine from the outside).

I love Kylo as a character, I see how under certain circumstances due to my abuse I could've headed in a different direction and become cruel and an abuser myself, I want him to have a second chance and make things better, but I also really hope Reylo does not become canon because we seriously need something that stops teaching little girls that bad guys change. I have all these messed up things about myself, but I'm not forcing any of my thoughts on anyone else nor attacking them for theirs.

The issue with people who overly identify with villains or who ship problematic stuff or who are using any flawed coping mechanism who harass others is immaturity, and that's not something people get suddenly from being yelled at. All in all, drowning in fiction is much less damaging than indulging in damaging real life actions, and yes, harassing others is a damaging real life action, but it is possible to feel the exact same thing they feel about Kylo without being dicks about it.

stops teaching little girls that bad guys change.

So does anyone else find this insistence a bit creepy? I don't think Reylo is going to happen at all, but this idea that villain redemption is teaching girls to forgive abusers. I loved the Vader redemption when I was a young child. It sure didn't teach me that all bad guys would just change their minds because you know, other factors go into and even girls can separate fiction from reality. I feel like most younger teens I see are better at separating this than some adults I'm seeing in fandom.

Nope, you're not alone. Among other things, there's so much effort being put into handwringing about how to teach potential victims that abuse is bad, and no one gives two fucks about recognizing and stopping perpetrators.

You're fucking dumb.

AYRT. Something only becomes a flawed coping mechanism if it's having a negative effect on a person's life or the lives of others around them*. Surely you respect other survivors enough to let them decide for themselves whether or not that's the case?

*and no, writing fiction that other people don't have to read doesn't count.

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