I sometimes wonder if the people who are so insistent on one character always being the bottom or top are heterosexual or virgins. Or just really naive and don't understand how problematic it is.
Penetrative sex is great and all, but the idea that it's the only legitimate type of sex is a bit narrow-minded and heteronormative.
Re: Favorite and Least Favorite Tropes and Headcanons
I agree with you re: wondering who end up being so insistent on the top/bottom dynamic.
I think some of it is youth, some of it is being straight and having bought into hetero-patriarchial norms, and some of it is not having had sex.
Like, my standards for sex scenes went waaaaay up once I started having sex. I also found I appreciated non penetrative sex scenes way more because I was aware of how intimate those things could be. And that you can have that intimacy without PinV or PinA sex.
I became more aware of the heteronormativity in fic through a lot of self education about queer issues because a number of my friends identify that way, and I didn't want to be that person, you know? I didn't want to just say ignorant things that made them uncomfortable. So if you don't know any queer people IRL, like, there's this weird fetishization of queer relationships that doesn't mirror what they're like in real life.
Like prioritizing penetration above all else is very erasing to ladies who only date ladies, (presuming both ladies are cis, but even if there is a trans lady in the relationship there's no guarantee she's going to be into penetrating her partner, you know?)
And that knowledge acquisition and the self awareness of my own heterosexual biases came with age, and experience.
Obviously not everyone is going to have the same experiences, but I found myself shifting away from the clearly delineated top/bottom and over prioritization of penetrative sex because I grew up, was aware of my subjective biases, and started having sex instead of just reading about it.
On a related note, have you also found so so so many a/o/b fic are like subtly (or not subtly) misogynistic in the way omega's are portrayed, as well as heteronormative with no idea of what consent actually looks like?
I don't want to kink shame, it's not the idea of the a/o/b dynamics I don't like per se. It's just how most fic like that are executed.
Re: Favorite and Least Favorite Tropes and Headcanons
I do think a lot of it is ignorance. I only really noticed it once I started dating women and people would wonder or ask me "who's the top?" which is insulting in so many ways. No one ever wonders about that when I'm dating a man because it's assumed that my gender makes me the more submissive partner. Or, no one asks about my sex life when I'm with a man but if I'm dating a woman it's all "how does sex work?", as if their curiosity gives them the right to ask such personal questions.
There's definitely a fetishization of queer relationships. I love that fandom explores different sexualities and genders, but a lot of the time it comes off as fetishizing or trying to prove a point.
Also, yes, my standards for sex in fics went way up once I started having sex. I tend to skim over most sex scenes in longer, plotty fics and I ignore any fics that call out bottom!characterA entirely.
Regarding a/b/o, yes, I have noticed that. Even when the trope is subverted, there's still a lot of that misogyny and heteronormativity there. But what bothers me the most with that trope is the focus on pregnancy and how important it is and how people who give life are treasured and sought after. As someone who is infertile, the few fics I read where "betas" are sort of thrown off to the side or considered unimportant because they can't get pregnant were like a knife to the gut. Infertility is rarely discussed in society and infertile people are already looked at as biologically broken or wrong, so seeing that in fandom, mostly written unintentionally, was infuriating and heartbreaking.
I don't want to kink shame a/b/o users, but there's definitely some internalized issues in the trope and the way people write it, and I think a good deal comes from not recognizing their own biases or ignorance.
Re: Favorite and Least Favorite Tropes and Headcanons
Oh man. That's terrible. Yeah, the fertility fetish in a/o/b is really like - in need of some self awareness and self criticism. It sucks that fandom has made that a hurtful thing.
I can think of maybe two fic that I can remember that tried to address it, and neither did it well. :/
RE: Asking who's the top in women dating women relationships, have you seen Mae Martin's bit on it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-2KKHOXnY4
She has a thing about when people ask who's the man in the relationship. She also has a funny song about her love of Harry Potter fanfic. (That bit starts like two or three minutes in. I'm not sure when her bit on people asking about relationships happens, it's been a while since I watched the thing the whole way through).
She also follows it with a funny critiques of how people write femmeslash.
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Re: Favorite and Least Favorite Tropes and Headcanons
(Anonymous) 2016-01-17 04:19 pm (UTC)(link)I sometimes wonder if the people who are so insistent on one character always being the bottom or top are heterosexual or virgins. Or just really naive and don't understand how problematic it is.
Penetrative sex is great and all, but the idea that it's the only legitimate type of sex is a bit narrow-minded and heteronormative.
Re: Favorite and Least Favorite Tropes and Headcanons
(Anonymous) 2016-01-17 10:12 pm (UTC)(link)I think some of it is youth, some of it is being straight and having bought into hetero-patriarchial norms, and some of it is not having had sex.
Like, my standards for sex scenes went waaaaay up once I started having sex. I also found I appreciated non penetrative sex scenes way more because I was aware of how intimate those things could be. And that you can have that intimacy without PinV or PinA sex.
I became more aware of the heteronormativity in fic through a lot of self education about queer issues because a number of my friends identify that way, and I didn't want to be that person, you know? I didn't want to just say ignorant things that made them uncomfortable. So if you don't know any queer people IRL, like, there's this weird fetishization of queer relationships that doesn't mirror what they're like in real life.
Like prioritizing penetration above all else is very erasing to ladies who only date ladies, (presuming both ladies are cis, but even if there is a trans lady in the relationship there's no guarantee she's going to be into penetrating her partner, you know?)
And that knowledge acquisition and the self awareness of my own heterosexual biases came with age, and experience.
Obviously not everyone is going to have the same experiences, but I found myself shifting away from the clearly delineated top/bottom and over prioritization of penetrative sex because I grew up, was aware of my subjective biases, and started having sex instead of just reading about it.
On a related note, have you also found so so so many a/o/b fic are like subtly (or not subtly) misogynistic in the way omega's are portrayed, as well as heteronormative with no idea of what consent actually looks like?
I don't want to kink shame, it's not the idea of the a/o/b dynamics I don't like per se. It's just how most fic like that are executed.
Re: Favorite and Least Favorite Tropes and Headcanons
(Anonymous) 2016-01-17 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)There's definitely a fetishization of queer relationships. I love that fandom explores different sexualities and genders, but a lot of the time it comes off as fetishizing or trying to prove a point.
Also, yes, my standards for sex in fics went way up once I started having sex. I tend to skim over most sex scenes in longer, plotty fics and I ignore any fics that call out bottom!characterA entirely.
Regarding a/b/o, yes, I have noticed that. Even when the trope is subverted, there's still a lot of that misogyny and heteronormativity there. But what bothers me the most with that trope is the focus on pregnancy and how important it is and how people who give life are treasured and sought after. As someone who is infertile, the few fics I read where "betas" are sort of thrown off to the side or considered unimportant because they can't get pregnant were like a knife to the gut. Infertility is rarely discussed in society and infertile people are already looked at as biologically broken or wrong, so seeing that in fandom, mostly written unintentionally, was infuriating and heartbreaking.
I don't want to kink shame a/b/o users, but there's definitely some internalized issues in the trope and the way people write it, and I think a good deal comes from not recognizing their own biases or ignorance.
Re: Favorite and Least Favorite Tropes and Headcanons
(Anonymous) 2016-01-18 12:42 am (UTC)(link)I can think of maybe two fic that I can remember that tried to address it, and neither did it well. :/
RE: Asking who's the top in women dating women relationships, have you seen Mae Martin's bit on it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-2KKHOXnY4
She has a thing about when people ask who's the man in the relationship. She also has a funny song about her love of Harry Potter fanfic. (That bit starts like two or three minutes in. I'm not sure when her bit on people asking about relationships happens, it's been a while since I watched the thing the whole way through).
She also follows it with a funny critiques of how people write femmeslash.